In the compost bin - should I be pleased?

[Michael J Davis]

Last week we discovered a hole next to the compost bin (big plastic one)
in a pile of grass cuttings. The bin doesn't sit neatly on the ground
and we are clear that the hole leads into the bin. Inside the bin are
evident signs of activity - and after carefully placing stuff in there
one finds it has been rearranged! Noises have been heard within.

The hole is about 7 cm diameter, and is acquiring a pile of nicely
shredded compost outside.

Last night in the twilight I crept out with a torch and waited, and saw
a little face inside the hole, I switched the torch on, the face
retreated and all I saw was a little white beady eye.

So I'm trying to identify what it is. I *think* the hole is too small
for rattus norwegicus (brown rat) or stoat, and is most likely to be a
weasel. (Which have been seen occasionally in our suburban garden.) From
my knowledge of black rats (rattus rattus) I don't think they'd live in
such surroundings.

Obviously I'm concerned about ground nesting birds (though that season
is over), but there's an overgrown area between that part of our garden
where the compost is and an electricity substation, which is frequented
by roosting birds.

If a weasel should I be pleased or concerned, and what should I use to
attract it out of the bin for a more positive identification?

Unfortunately, it has been too wet[1] recently to use traditional
tracking aids like talcum powder.

[1] But as I say that, I recall that we had a sewer burst in the road
two weeks ago and that may have forced some rodents to find new
locations...

(I've not yet found any droppings - I can identify rats from such.)

Having spelt all that out, I'm more inclined to think rat... :-(

Mike

[Christina Websell]

Post by Michael J Davis
Last week we discovered a hole next to the compost bin (big plastic one)
in a pile of grass cuttings. The bin doesn't sit neatly on the ground
and we are clear that the hole leads into the bin. Inside the bin are
evident signs of activity - and after carefully placing stuff in there
one finds it has been rearranged! Noises have been heard within.
The hole is about 7 cm diameter, and is acquiring a pile of nicely
shredded compost outside.
Last night in the twilight I crept out with a torch and waited, and saw
a little face inside the hole, I switched the torch on, the face
retreated and all I saw was a little white beady eye.
So I'm trying to identify what it is. I *think* the hole is too small
for rattus norwegicus (brown rat) or stoat, and is most likely to be a
weasel. (Which have been seen occasionally in our suburban garden.) From
my knowledge of black rats (rattus rattus) I don't think they'd live in
such surroundings.
Obviously I'm concerned about ground nesting birds (though that season
is over), but there's an overgrown area between that part of our garden
where the compost is and an electricity substation, which is frequented
by roosting birds.
If a weasel should I be pleased or concerned, and what should I use to
attract it out of the bin for a more positive identification?
Unfortunately, it has been too wet[1] recently to use traditional
tracking aids like talcum powder.
[1] But as I say that, I recall that we had a sewer burst in the road
two weeks ago and that may have forced some rodents to find new
locations...
(I've not yet found any droppings - I can identify rats from such.)
Having spelt all that out, I'm more inclined to think rat... :-(
Mike

My money is on rat too! A 7 cm hole is plenty big enough for a rat and they
are fond of nesting in compost heaps.
Remember that weasels are only as thick as a pencil and don't normally dig
burrows, they are more likely to take over an existing mouse burrow if they
want to give birth, for example, (having eaten the resident first of
course..)

What will you do if it's a rat? I used to use poison but never will again
as I am sure I lost my tawny owls by secondary poisoning. Tawnies like to
eat rats, poison takes a while to work and in the meantime the rats are easy
targets when they are staggering around without dying. Apart from that, I
decided it was cruel as I hadn't realised how long it can take them to die.

[Michael J Davis]

Christina Websell <***@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> was inspired to
say

Post by Christina Websell

Post by Michael J Davis
Last week we discovered a hole next to the compost bin (big plastic one)
in a pile of grass cuttings. The bin doesn't sit neatly on the ground
and we are clear that the hole leads into the bin. Inside the bin are
evident signs of activity - and after carefully placing stuff in there
one finds it has been rearranged! Noises have been heard within.
The hole is about 7 cm diameter, and is acquiring a pile of nicely
shredded compost outside.
Last night in the twilight I crept out with a torch and waited, and saw
a little face inside the hole, I switched the torch on, the face
retreated and all I saw was a little white beady eye.
So I'm trying to identify what it is. I *think* the hole is too small
for rattus norwegicus (brown rat) or stoat, and is most likely to be a
weasel. (Which have been seen occasionally in our suburban garden.) From
my knowledge of black rats (rattus rattus) I don't think they'd live in
such surroundings.
Obviously I'm concerned about ground nesting birds (though that season
is over), but there's an overgrown area between that part of our garden
where the compost is and an electricity substation, which is frequented
by roosting birds.
If a weasel should I be pleased or concerned, and what should I use to
attract it out of the bin for a more positive identification?
Unfortunately, it has been too wet[1] recently to use traditional
tracking aids like talcum powder.
[1] But as I say that, I recall that we had a sewer burst in the road
two weeks ago and that may have forced some rodents to find new
locations...
(I've not yet found any droppings - I can identify rats from such.)
Having spelt all that out, I'm more inclined to think rat... :-(

My money is on rat too! A 7 cm hole is plenty big enough for a rat and they
are fond of nesting in compost heaps.

Ah, you have the advantage on me! Thanks!I didn't know about their
propensity for compost, but not surprised. I'll have to make sure it (i
hope it's only one) is not breeding there.

Post by Christina Websell
Remember that weasels are only as thick as a pencil and don't normally dig
burrows, they are more likely to take over an existing mouse burrow if they
want to give birth, for example, (having eaten the resident first of
course..)

Yes. I ruled out stoat as probably being more rural.

Post by Christina Websell
What will you do if it's a rat? I used to use poison but never will again
as I am sure I lost my tawny owls by secondary poisoning. Tawnies like to
eat rats, poison takes a while to work and in the meantime the rats are easy
targets when they are staggering around without dying. Apart from that, I
decided it was cruel as I hadn't realised how long it can take them to die.

Here I do have a slight advantage - forty years ago I was marketing
director of a national pest control company, and so have some technical
knowledge (although my technology may be out of date). At that time we
used warfarin, and although I don't think *that* would affect birds with
secondary poisoning, I don't like the way it causes death (internal
bleeding and weakening).

Anyway, I'll continue to make an identification. And consult the council
- but probably the best recourse is maximum disruption - there's a golf
course 100 yards up the road, where it'll fight it out with the fox
population....

Mike

[Christina Websell]

Post by Michael J Davis
say

Post by Christina Websell

Post by Michael J Davis
Last week we discovered a hole next to the compost bin (big plastic one)
in a pile of grass cuttings. The bin doesn't sit neatly on the ground
and we are clear that the hole leads into the bin. Inside the bin are
evident signs of activity - and after carefully placing stuff in there
one finds it has been rearranged! Noises have been heard within.
The hole is about 7 cm diameter, and is acquiring a pile of nicely
shredded compost outside.
Last night in the twilight I crept out with a torch and waited, and saw
a little face inside the hole, I switched the torch on, the face
retreated and all I saw was a little white beady eye.
So I'm trying to identify what it is. I *think* the hole is too small
for rattus norwegicus (brown rat) or stoat, and is most likely to be a
weasel. (Which have been seen occasionally in our suburban garden.) From
my knowledge of black rats (rattus rattus) I don't think they'd live in
such surroundings.
Obviously I'm concerned about ground nesting birds (though that season
is over), but there's an overgrown area between that part of our garden
where the compost is and an electricity substation, which is frequented
by roosting birds.
If a weasel should I be pleased or concerned, and what should I use to
attract it out of the bin for a more positive identification?
Unfortunately, it has been too wet[1] recently to use traditional
tracking aids like talcum powder.
[1] But as I say that, I recall that we had a sewer burst in the road
two weeks ago and that may have forced some rodents to find new
locations...
(I've not yet found any droppings - I can identify rats from such.)
Having spelt all that out, I'm more inclined to think rat... :-(

My money is on rat too! A 7 cm hole is plenty big enough for a rat and they
are fond of nesting in compost heaps.

Ah, you have the advantage on me! Thanks!I didn't know about their
propensity for compost, but not surprised. I'll have to make sure it (i
hope it's only one) is not breeding there.

If you have a rat, it's never only one.

Post by Michael J Davis
Here I do have a slight advantage - forty years ago I was marketing
director of a national pest control company, and so have some technical
knowledge (although my technology may be out of date). At that time we
used warfarin, and although I don't think *that* would affect birds with
secondary poisoning, I don't like the way it causes death (internal
bleeding and weakening).

Yes you are out of date (sorry) and even if you used warfarin based poison
it does cause secondary poisoning, how can it not?

Post by Michael J Davis
Anyway, I'll continue to make an identification. And consult the council
- but probably the best recourse is maximum disruption - there's a golf
course 100 yards up the road, where it'll fight it out with the fox
population....

Good luck.
My solution is to get the terrier men in. They smoke the rats out and
terriers wait. The rats either meet their maker in a second or they get
away. So much nicer than a lingering death from poison.
There is probably a terrier club in your area where the members would like
to exercise their terriers on your rats.
It costs nothing (except tea & biscuits)
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Rabbit_Hunters/index.php?act=site

[Trevor]

Post by Michael J Davis
Last week we discovered a hole next to the compost bin (big plastic one)
in a pile of grass cuttings. The bin doesn't sit neatly on the ground
and we are clear that the hole leads into the bin. Inside the bin are
evident signs of activity - and after carefully placing stuff in there
one finds it has been rearranged! Noises have been heard within.
The hole is about 7 cm diameter, and is acquiring a pile of nicely
shredded compost outside.
Last night in the twilight I crept out with a torch and waited, and saw
a little face inside the hole, I switched the torch on, the face
retreated and all I saw was a little white beady eye.
So I'm trying to identify what it is. I *think* the hole is too small
for rattus norwegicus (brown rat) or stoat, and is most likely to be a
weasel. (Which have been seen occasionally in our suburban garden.) From
my knowledge of black rats (rattus rattus) I don't think they'd live in
such surroundings.
Obviously I'm concerned about ground nesting birds (though that season
is over), but there's an overgrown area between that part of our garden
where the compost is and an electricity substation, which is frequented
by roosting birds.
If a weasel should I be pleased or concerned, and what should I use to
attract it out of the bin for a more positive identification?
Unfortunately, it has been too wet[1] recently to use traditional
tracking aids like talcum powder.
[1] But as I say that, I recall that we had a sewer burst in the road
two weeks ago and that may have forced some rodents to find new
locations...
(I've not yet found any droppings - I can identify rats from such.)
Having spelt all that out, I'm more inclined to think rat... :-(
Mike

Had old Rattus rattus in my compost bins many times, always in
October/November as it turns colder.

[Michael J Davis]

Post by Trevor

Post by Michael J Davis
Last week we discovered a hole next to the compost bin (big plastic one)
in a pile of grass cuttings. The bin doesn't sit neatly on the ground
and we are clear that the hole leads into the bin. Inside the bin are
evident signs of activity - and after carefully placing stuff in there
one finds it has been rearranged! Noises have been heard within.
The hole is about 7 cm diameter, and is acquiring a pile of nicely
shredded compost outside.
Last night in the twilight I crept out with a torch and waited, and saw
a little face inside the hole, I switched the torch on, the face
retreated and all I saw was a little white beady eye.
So I'm trying to identify what it is. I *think* the hole is too small
for rattus norwegicus (brown rat) or stoat, and is most likely to be a
weasel. (Which have been seen occasionally in our suburban garden.) From
my knowledge of black rats (rattus rattus) I don't think they'd live in
such surroundings.
Obviously I'm concerned about ground nesting birds (though that season
is over), but there's an overgrown area between that part of our garden
where the compost is and an electricity substation, which is frequented
by roosting birds.
If a weasel should I be pleased or concerned, and what should I use to
attract it out of the bin for a more positive identification?
Unfortunately, it has been too wet[1] recently to use traditional
tracking aids like talcum powder.
[1] But as I say that, I recall that we had a sewer burst in the road
two weeks ago and that may have forced some rodents to find new
locations...
(I've not yet found any droppings - I can identify rats from such.)
Having spelt all that out, I'm more inclined to think rat... :-(
Mike

Had old Rattus rattus in my compost bins many times, always in
October/November as it turns colder.

Looks very much like rat. I tried smoking the hole out, seemed to leave
it untouched for 24 hours, but some reduced activity still around.

Our pet white black rats (ratuus rattus - 20 years ago) used to like the
space underneath the fridge until we blocked it up.

Time for a story... they used to enjoy seeing the world from my shoulder
and would grab my trousers behind the knees and scramble up.
Occasionally, given a tid-bit to nibble they would reciprocate and share
it into my ear! One day I was reading the paper with a rat on my
shoulder, when the doorbell rang, I answered it, and there was a tree-
fella touting for business. As he finished the first line of his
introduction, he stopped, gasped, "What's that on your shoulder?" and
then rushed off shouting "I can't abide rats....!!"

Anyway, I have no intention of persuading wild ones to sit on my
shoulder...!

Mike

[unknown]

Post by Michael J Davis
Time for a story... they used to enjoy seeing the world from my
shoulder and would grab my trousers behind the knees and scramble up.
Occasionally, given a tid-bit to nibble they would reciprocate and
share it into my ear! One day I was reading the paper with a rat on
my shoulder, when the doorbell rang, I answered it, and there was a
tree- fella touting for business. As he finished the first line of his
introduction, he stopped, gasped, "What's that on your shoulder?" and
then rushed off shouting "I can't abide rats....!!"

Decades ago, in Holland Park (W London) a grey squirrel ("tree rat" - hence
relevance) sat on my shoulder while I fed it peanuts from my pocket. I got
distracted or ran out, forget which, anyway the squirrel climbed down and
stuck its head in the pocket to check the supply. Fortunately it was a
jacket not trouser pocket...

Mike.

[Will Hirstle]

Hi Mike,

Another likely contender is a woodmouse - they love compost bins - although the hole is certainly large enough for a rat.

It almost certainly not a black rat, which is now one of the UKs rarest mammals with only a few remnant port/coastal populations remaining.

If it is a brown rat I see no reason for concern or to try to get rid of it. In some environments they can be a problem but a negative reaction to seeing a rat is usually unwarranted. Many gardens have resident rats or rats using them and they cause no harm to people or other wildlife.

Hope that helps

Will

[Michael J Davis]

Post by Will Hirstle
Hi Mike,
Another likely contender is a woodmouse - they love compost bins -
although the hole is certainly large enough for a rat.
It almost certainly not a black rat, which is now one of the UKs rarest
mammals with only a few remnant port/coastal populations remaining.
If it is a brown rat I see no reason for concern or to try to get rid
of it. In some environments they can be a problem but a negative
reaction to seeing a rat is usually unwarranted. Many gardens have
resident rats or rats using them and they cause no harm to people or
other wildlife.

Thanks, Will. I've come to that conclusion - rattus n. - the eyes were
too far apart for wm. We've stopped putting some meat waste into the
composting bin - they'd tunnelled their way into it from below.

Less current activity, cold wet weather, and we've been clearing a lot
of garden rubbish so not so much cover!

Mike

[Christina Websell]

"Will Hirstle" <***@virgin.net> wrote in message news:987e7bcf-1ecb-475e-8a26-***@googlegroups.com...
Hi Mike,

Another likely contender is a woodmouse - they love compost bins - although
the hole is certainly large enough for a rat.

It almost certainly not a black rat, which is now one of the UKs rarest
mammals with only a few remnant port/coastal populations remaining.

If it is a brown rat I see no reason for concern or to try to get rid of it.
In some environments they can be a problem but a negative reaction to seeing
a rat is usually unwarranted. Many gardens have resident rats or rats using
them and they cause no harm to people or other wildlife.


Yes they do. they carry leptosporosis.